Tim: The single being released just as a 7" I thought was kind of interesting, since this is the day of the 12" "Maxi" single. 7" records are pretty rare.

Mick: what can I say?

Tim: I think it's great. You saved people two dollars.

Mick: I don't understand all this stuff. I just play on the records. as far as I saw it, we were doing a single and we just did the single. And now everyone says "God, just a 7?" The engineer said "This is the first time in two years that I've only done just one 7" mix." And I thought "Good God!" you know. I think that's getting out of hand, cause basically the 12" is a promotional device. I would do a 12" single if there's two or three songs on the B-side, but when it's just two songs, one on either side, it's a 7" single.

Tim: When did Nick know he wanted to do In The Ghetto, 'cause in Mutiny he said he thought he was "back down in the ghetto".

Mick: I don't know. The cover versions come very much accidental. I don't think there's ever any great conscious decision that "this is what I have to do now". He just liked the song, I guess. He did it on the Immaculative Consumptive and then I think it was suggested he record it when we were doing the recordings in March in London.

Tim: Someone from the record company suggested it?

Mick: No, they didn't know we were doing it even. We did it as a special surprise. Seeing as how we were costing them so much money, we threw in this bonus of them getting a single out of us. I think actually what happened was they were tossing it up a little bit, not really very seriously. We listened to a recording of it from the Immaculate Consumptive in the studio and thought it sounded great. I think the single's great as well.

Tim: Yeah, it was obviously taken pretty seriously. It's not at all how some people would expect you to do the song.

Mick: I don't know, I take it both ways myself.

Tim: Does Nick have in mind another Elvis Presley song to do?

Mick: I don't think he'd do anymore Elvis Presley songs.

Tim: You haven't done Moon is in the Gutter live?

Mick: No, Nick's the only one who knows how to play the piano on it. I guess he could teach me or Barry the piano, but he played it on the record,and I think if we played it live it would be a bit of a mess. I don't think it'd match very well with the rest of the set. That's why it's on the b-side of the single, cause we thought it just wouldn't slot in well with the rest of the album things, that depressing piece of work. The album is all very long pieces, but Moon is a very succinct little song. The other are all meandering, generally very strange arrangements.

Tim: Has it been pretty much the same song order in all the shows?

Mick: It has been. We've never done that before; always with The Birthday Party we used to change the set every night. But that was because I wouldn't have it any other way. I'd just sit down and write out a different setlist. With this one, I don't feel the responsibility to do that. We just arrive at the next gig and I say "Wanna do a different set tonight, Nick?" and he goes "Uhhhh" so I say "OK, we'll do the same one." It's a very difficult group of songs to put into an order that's effective, which is another reason why I think it has stayed pretty much the same. Cause we've had two or three different orders that we have used, but this one seems to work the best. We've done ones with Black Paul late in the set, but it was followed by Saint Huck, so the end of the set was totally strong while the beginning floundered a bit. So when we hit on this order of songs it seemed to work well, and that's why we stuck with it. It was very difficult to get one that was balanced.

Tim: I don't think there's any better thing possible to start with other than Black Paul, since just you and Nick come out there, The Birthday Party guys, and then the others come out later. If that one's later in the set, what, the other guys just walk off? That probably wouldn't look the greatest.

Mick: Yeah. It's also been very funny on a couple of occasions, when some real buzzsaw group is on before us. In L.A. this guy came out, "The weird antipathy of sounds from..."

Tim: Revved up intro, huh?

Mick: Yeah, really worked the audience up. "Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds!" They all went "Yeah!" and we just went "Da Da," just nine minutes of Black Paul.

Tim: I got some Frank Sinatra for right before you come out tonight that might set the mood for something a little more somber.

Mick: At one show they played Somewhere by P.J. Proby before we went on. That was nice.

Tim: On this tour have there been any opening bands you've heard and liked?

Mick: Generally I always find it difficult to watch and be attentive to any groups that are playing on any night when I'm playing. So as a result we only turn up maybe during the last quarter hour of their set. We played with the Meat Puppets in San Francisco, and I like the things that they've done for a long time. We turned up and I watched a few of the songs, and just found myself... it's just impossible to concentrate. I went and sat backstage again. Even with a group that I really wanted to see. I thought they were pretty weird anyway!

Tim: So anyway you play an hour-long set even though there's only 8 songs. The only one from the album I didn't hear in Detroit was Wings off Flies. Any particular reason that's not played?

Mick: We did it in Australia and I didn't think it worked very well live. I don't think it worked very well in the studio myself, either. I don't think it's that exceptional.

Tim: Do you have a favorite Bad Seeds song?

Mick: I think my favorite Bad Seeds songs are probably Saint Huck, Black Paul, Well of Misery, and um, probably Avalanche. Not all the time when we play it live; I find Avalanche a bit difficult. But the live version of Saint Huck I think can be great. The way the recorded version of it was done was that I played the piano to a bass drum tape loop while Nick sang the whole song. Then it was built up from there, with everything playing to the guide vocal. The whole arrangement of the song worked with the guide vocal. Then after everything was done Nick sang another vocal on it, which very often ends up in different places and that's the way it stands on the record. I think it works quite well most of the time, but if he'd sung it in the same places as the guide vocal... I just think it was very effective the way it worked with the guide vocal and the music.

Tim: What you're saying is that the guide vocal was scrapped entirely and then this other thing just put in, so the whole standard-

Mick: It just works in a different way. It became much, much more abstract than it was in the beginning, but the arrangement was pretty abstract to begin with. He ended up singing over the breaks, singing the cue after everyone's come in, things like that.

Tim: Probably makes it harder to do live, doesn't it?

Mick: No, no, we play it live with the arrangement that we did.

Tim: I don't know how all that's done. Like in Black Paul when you're playing, there must be some kind of special communication between you and Nick. Or is it that you've just done it so many times that it's easy for everything to click? The songs are so long that I don't see how everything works out exact every time.

Mick: Well it doesn't. Very often things are quite different, Nick misses a verse or something.

Tim: I wondered how he could possibly remember all the words to all the songs.

Mick: He usually does all right with that one. I can think of two times on this tour when he's left out the Armies of Ants verse, that's all. Otherwise, he's all there.

Tim: But they all wanted their turn at a cut for this tour? Course, you can't play through all of them, can you? One of them would have to drum if you just sat there at the piano the whole time.

Mick: Oh no. It would be rather hard to play the piano, the rhythm guitar and the drums all at the same time, wouldn't it?

Tim: Could just use some more backing tapes and make the others sit offstage for those numbers as well.

Mick: The backing tapes. Yes, the backing tape for Saint Huck is a great problem, yes. That's something else altogether.

Tim: Some of the club haven't been equipped to play it? Or Louie shuts it off ten seconds too late?

Mick: No, what usually happens is the stage mixer forgets to turn on the channel, so you don't hear the opening and suddenly it just comes on but it's not loud enough, so for the first minute I'm going "UP!"

Tim: How come no one whistles during Saint Huck on this tour?

Mick: That was me and Barry on the record. Basically it's because it'd be very, very difficult to pitch it correctly. That's a pretty weird little tune that's whistled. I think it's better to just play it on the piano for practicality's sake.

Tim: Do you know what Saint Huck and Saint Elvis have in common?

Mick: Well, I would imagine that Nick is Saint Huck.

Tim: But Saint Huck gets killed in the end.

Mick: Who doesn't?

Tim: And he sees himself as Saint Elvis, too?

Mick: I don't know, perhaps that's some sort of alter ego thing.

Tim: I probably should be asking Nick about some of this.