The Three Horsemen of the Apocalypse (UK)From New Musical Express, February 25th, 1989by Simon Reynolds
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Container DriversMES: "The trouble with the music biz is that its become so bourgeoise. A middle class executive business like the police force." SM: "A middle class executive police force? You must be mad! They're stormtroopers nowadays, thicker than they ever were." MES: "Can we drop the cop talk? It's the same with everything else, like lurries..." SM: "Lurries? What are lurries?" MES: "Lurries. Containers that deliver your fucking food to your fucking house, alright?" SM: "Lorries! Yeah right." MES: "The drivers are paid the lowest wages because everyone wants to sit in the office and be a ponce. You can't just go into a hotel and write your name, you've got to fuck around on a bloody computer. Nobody wants to work anymore." SM: "Oh God! You make me wanna puke sometimes, you do. Of course nobody wants to work. Who in their right mind wants to work?" MES: "Alright, alright, that's obvious, the sky's fucking blue. Soccer's the same. None of the fuckers want to hit the ball in the back of the net. They're all too fucking muscley. And thick. Running up and down the field like bloody morons. The England team are all bloody minor executives who can't kick the ball in the back of the net, can't do the bloody job they're hired to do. I do loads of gigs, that's my job to play loads of gigs, I'm not an executive, I don't mind playing in front of a load of sweaty people." NME: "Do you two still enjoy playing live?" NC: "I don't know if I do. The first Kilburn show was a nightmare." MES: "What's new with The Bad Seeds?" NC: "I used to hate playing live totally, just the whole physical exhaustion was too much for me." MES: "Bleeding workshy Australian. Australians never do any work." NC: "The last tour, going on stage was a release." MES: "Sexually?" NC: "As my life gets more constipated and cramped going on stage I'm able to purge myself in some way." MES: "A bowel release." NC: "I feel more relaxed." MES: "With Mick Harvey behind you with the vaseline." NC: "Put a muzzle on this guy." SM: "The gigs I enjoy are the ones where I am so angry and paranoid, and I hate the audience so much, that I put everything into it to feed off the aggressive side of it. I don't actually hate the fans but when I'm feeling angry, pissed off and full of hate, it's a good gig for me." NC: "An audience is the perfect thing to unleash that hate and venom on. It doesn't necessarily mean that you hate everyone in the audience but when you've got a so-called adoring mass in front of you, it's a perfect target for that kind of disgust. Sometimes you find yourself in a position where you're venting your disgust on an audience and a lot of them keep coming back because they actually like that aspect. In a way that diffuses the feeling and you don't get the same release." MES: "You gotta reassess your audience, make sure they aren't just coming to throw ashtrays at your head for fun. Shane says he goes on full of twist, you've got to. If you don't you're fucking fucked, that's what's wrong with a lot of acts these days, they do fucking yoga before and go on all fucking relaxed. I've been with Fad Gadget and he was doing incense and headstands. The English soccer players could do with a lot of twist, they should be put in a room and made to go round in circles, and told "if you don't do a good gig tonight then you're not getting paid." NME: "Shane, you obviously don't enjoy playing live anymore, is that through being on the road too much?" SM: "I feel like I've spent the last five years of my life on the road. It hasn't affected my songs but it has probably affected everything else about me. Obviously, the more you travel, the wilder the things that keep happening to you, the more likely it is that complete strangers will knock on your hotel room door." MES: "Nick and I don't related to that 'cos the people who come up to us either hate our guts or wouldn't really want to be alone in a room with us. You're a very amiable guy, Shane." NC: "I'm not sure what you're talking about here but the way people related to me in the dressing rooms and so on was incredibly aggressive. They know every record and they seem to think they should nudge me or bump into me as they go past.It was this incredible performance that used to amuse me. I think we share something in common on that level 'cos, like, in the early days, people were drawn towards us like they'd be drawn towards a car smash..." SM: "I read about the fan mail that Freddie Krueger from the Nightmare on Elm Street movies gets-real sicko stuff, loads of letters from genuine corpse freaks and child killer types. It frightens him shitless. That sorta thing freaks me out." NC: "There is a definite relationship between that fanaticism and the fact that, as a performer, you expose more of yourself, of the undercurrents of your personality. Most rock personalities subdue that or chose not to explore it." [caption] "It's rare when a group comes along that has any real soul to them." (Cave) |
Heroes and VillainsNME: "Mark, of the three of you, would you admit to being the professional cynic?" MES: "No, cynicism and defensiveness are two things constantly levelled at me. Look, I've got time for people, I'm good mannered. I usually find that when you are down, nobody has a bloody minute for you. If I was a nobody, you wouldn't even talk to me." SM: "You are nobody." MES: "Fuck off. It's bloody true. Neither would you, Nick." NC: "Bullshit! That's bullshit, I take offense at that." MES: "I'm not leveling anything at you. People, in general, don't like being up front and civil. They hate you for it. They label you a cynic 'cos you're reasonable." SM: "You're no reasonable though. You're a rude bastard. That's fair enough." MES: "Ok I'm cynical. But I'm not defensive. I'm slightly paranoid which is healthy." SOH: "Slightly?" MES: "Listen, Sean, do you walk around London embracing everybody? If I was in the bleeding gutter you wouldn't piss on me." SOH: "I would." NC: "Your reaction is becoming very defensive, Mark." MES: "You're a failed psychiatrist." NC: "I've analyzed you, alright-defensive paranoid with delusions of grandeur." MES: "I've had discussions like this all the time in pubs. I end up beaten half to death on the floor. I try to be civil and people assume I'm attacking them." SM: "You attack people all the time. In the press." MES: "I used to. It became too routine so I gave it up. Nietzsche said 'Embrace your enemies'. You two aren't my enemies so I won't embrace you. SM: "Read a lot of Nietzsche, have you?" MES: "All his stuff. I can't quote him. I'm not into him anymore, gave up three years ago. He taught me a lot, though. We're not all born public school boys like you." SM: "I'm not a born public school boy." MES: "Do you like Brendan Behan, he's good." SM: "Yeah, he's not a fascist maniac posing as a philosopher." MES: "If we're gonna talk philosophy, that's a load of crap! The Nazis adopted his creed and distorted it, they misquoted him all the time." SM: "The Will to Power? Try re-interpreting that statement. You can't. It says what it says." MES: "He wasn't a Nazi-you're only saying that because some polytechnic fucking lecturer told you he was." SM: "I'm saying it 'cos I read two of his books where he dismissed the weak, the ugly, the radically impure, Christianity, Socrates, Plato. He was anti anyone who hadn't a strong body, perfect features..." MES: "That's the coffee table analysis. He was the most anti-German pro-Semitic person..." SM: "His books were full of hate." MES: "You've just said you're full of hate when you go on stage." SM: "I don't go around saying Socrates was a cunt, Jesus Christ was an idiot, do I?" MES: "Jesus Christ was the biggest blight on the human race, he was. And all of them Socialists and Communists- second rate Christianity. It's alright for you Catholics. I was brought up with Irish Catholics. Some of my best friends are Irish Catholics." SM: "Listen to him." MES: "Hitler was a Catholic vegetarian, non-smoker, non-drinker. The way you're talking about Nietzsche is that anyone who's a non-smoker, non-drinker is a Nazi. That's the level of your debate, pal. You don't know fuck all about Nietzsche, pal." SM: "You're anti-socialist, too, aren't you?" MES: "Yeah. I'm an extreme anti-socialist. You don't live on a housing estate where there's been socialism for thirty years and they keep saying it's gonna get better all the time and it never does. Thirty fucking years of it getting worse and worse. You obviously haven't experienced that, living in London." SM: "What's the alternative?" MES: "I don't have to worry about that. I'm an adult. I'm working class, me. I come from a generation that fucking created this nation pal. You lot, you just sit around and talk about socialism, you're the bloody problem. Eighty percent of this country are white trash, working class. How come they don't vote Labour? 'Cos the Labour Party are a fucking disgrace, that's why. Engels- he was a factory owner in Manchester exploiting 13 year old girls. Learn your history, pal, learn your history. I suppose you blame all Ireland's problems on the British. All the problems of the world are down to Britain. That's what you think, why don't you say it? You can't tell me anything about oppression 'cos, I'll tell you something pal, if you'd been part of Germany, you'd have been liquidated. If you were part of Russia, you wouldn't even exist. Don't tell me about oppression, my parents and grand-parents were exploited to the hilt. Sent to wars, they had gangrene in their teeth. My grandfather was at Dunkirk and all you can see is Margaret Thatcher on my face when, actually, She's on Nick's face. Isn't she Nick? Come on Nick, help me out. Basically, I like to discuss things right down the line and I don't agree with anybody..." |
King Inc.NME: "This is getting a bit out of order, can we talk about something less acrimonious. Heroes?" SM: "You're into Presley, Nick." MES: "A lot of Presley's good stuff was overlooked. LIke the NME viewpoint that he died when he came out of the army. I think the opposite, his best stuff came after the army." SM: "That figures. He was a pile of shit when he came out of the army compared to before he went in. His mother died when he was in the army. That was one of the causes. Anyway, he did some good stuff in the late '60's after the army- Kentucky Rain, Suspicious Minds, In the Ghetto as opposed to Heartbreak Hotel, Blue Moon of Kentucky, That's Alright Mama. I suppose that's all shit to you , is it?" MES: "I'm not saying that but everybody writes the later stuff off..." SM: "Who ever writes off Elvis?" MES: "Look, pal, Elvis was the king, right? To me, Elvis were king. He was only the king 'cos he sustained it. You probably think he's some kind of criminal 'cos he went in the army for a few years. You're insinuating that I'm pro-army and if you have anything to say on that score, say it now, pal and I'll fucking argue right through you!" SM: "What! He's off again." MES: "I'm into Merseybeat at the minute- The Searchers. I respect Dylan. The only good thing I've heard of his is that LP he did with George Harrison and Roy Orbison." NME: "You seem to prefer older music; is there nothing contemporary that appeals?" NC: "It's rare when a group comes along that has any real soul to them. Rock'n'Roll history isn't long enough. There's three or four blues people that I like after filtering through loads of blues. There's about three gospel bands, a handful of country ones. I have to draw on the... what are you laughing at, Mark?" MES: "Oh nothing, heh heh, I'm really into John Lee Hooker myself. He's great solo without a band. His bands are crap. I was always into more experimental bands- Can, Faust. I won't say German 'cos Shane'll have an epileptic fit. I think Nick's more traditional and I expect that but, I'm into things like Stockhausen, The United States of America and Gene Vincent and rockabilly. That's my influences. And I always preferred Lou Reed to the Velvet Underground." NME: "What do you think of the blanket critical approval of Morrissey?" MES: "Morrissey's another Paddy! A South Manchester Paddy. Shane's got more to say than Morrissey." SM: "I think you guys are encouraging Mark to be like this. You journalists love it." MES: "Of course they do. That's the NME policy, they love a good argument. Don't you lads?"
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