RP: Oh, back in the studio, how are the songs created; who comes up with what?

Laughter

RP: Well, in a manner of speaking, does somebody come up with a tune, and you put lyrics to it, or do you go from the lyrics?

RH: Everybody in the group now writes music, so there's, I don't know, fifteen ways of getting it done.

SB: But primarily it's sort've like, well, with Mick you tend to present him with a set of lyrics, and if he's sort've- well that's true of anyone- if I present him with a set of lyrics which I write with Bronwyn and, they sort've deem those lyrics sort've suitable for a particular sort've music, and it's just a matter of compromise made, I guess, with verses removed, or music changed, or whatever-

RP: So that in the end the entire band is contributing actively to the-

RH & SB: Oh yeah yeah hell yeah

SB: Every song is, irrespective of what the credits are, everyone has contributed towards that song, and it wouldn't be a good song unless it was that way.

RP: Very much like what John Lydon said years ago about their song credits; that's why they always put all the names at the end-

(Rowland's pen scratching, persistent since he returned from smoking, reaches a peak and is eventually silenced by a watchful, helpful Simon).

SB: It can be misleading that way, cos if you do come up with the music and if you write the lyrics the, well I mean, you have actually done so irrespective. I think that anyone with any sort've sensitivity or knowledge of music would be aware of the fact that it's obviously a person's guitar sound or a person's organ sound is obviously going to contribute towards the overall sum total of the song, but ultimately the actual notes were written by, or the notes that the person worked off to create whatever sound ...

RH: The original spark of inspiration-

RP: There's a greater concentration of very tough professionalism about this band ..

RH: What? Tough professionalism? (gasp of disbelief, laughter)

RP: (surprised etc I was going on to say "rather than your previous bands, or is there?" but what the hell, the point was debated)

SB: Oh no, we're slack as hell.

RP: Oh, good

RH: Professionalism is something I would hopefully like to avoid, for my entire life. "Professional" is someone like Frank Sinatra, who goes out on stage and is totally at ease and totally relaxed and just does exactly the same thing every night-

RP: So you don't do the same thing every night, and you've always got pressures- (thinking of the roadie who pops in and out with little difficulties and so fourth throughout the interview)

RH: Well the songs always have room for improvisation

SB: That's something I personally like to aspire to quite a lot, I mean, I quite like the idea of there being both lyrical and musical improvisation in a song; the more that we get to know each other, the more that that's possible, the more interesting that it becomes; because I mean that I find the idea of someone getting up and performing a sort've like, in the sense that they might present a play, which is by dint of its very nature, to be successful, it has to be exactly the same every night, and I would prefer there to be a certain amount of spontaneity, and if you don't feel- I mean each song has a sort've, not just a singular characteristic, and that it's a sort've sad song or a happy song or whatever song and I think that that comes through in our music, that on a sort've given particular night, people might feel in a particular way, and that combination of those feelings create a sort've different feeling every night that we play.

RP: I was hoping you'd say that. (I know folks! A dumb thing to say, but could you have come up with a better alternative)

SB: So that's why you should come along and see us, it's a unique experience.

RP: I gather that. (Hideously long pause while I throw my questions out and realise that I've only got about three left, since they've touched somehow on every topic I was intending to bring up)

RP: Since the media continually portrays Nick Cave and everything else anywhere near him as almost ludicrously morbid-

RH & SB: sigh

RP: Despite this- are you getting any of this sort of response?

SB: Tons of it.

RH: The fact I basically that people are so used to, particularly songwriting being so incredibly saccharine, that if they're presented with anything that bears any relation to the contradictions and so forth in actual life then they think that it's depressing, which is basically their problem as far as I can see.

SB: I don't think Browyn and myself write lyrics that are in anyway depressing. I mean I don't- admittedly, for some reason for which I cannot understand, it does appear that the more negative emotions are sort've like, the more powerful ones, and you do seem to be drawn towards those to write about, but none of those, I don't think there's one song that I've written with Bronwyn or by myself that is in anyway defeatist or subservient to the way that the world is or whatever, I mean I would hope to sort've see the world in a realistic way, and sort've like appreciate that there's both good and bad in it as opposed to-

RP: I thought they were songs of experience really.

SB: Yeah, but not sort've like negative experience.

RP: No

SB: I mean I hope that my songs sort've bring people, I mean I hope that ultimately I don't sort've think that that will probably affect most people in that way, but if it affects one or two people in a positive way that they might feel happier with their lives, then I think that's a great thing. I certainly don't hope to depress people or to be a sort've fourth form person doing poetry readings, of the variety that are common among fourth formers-

RH: The fact is that happiness isn't the be all and end all of your life anyway. The most particularly intense times of your life aren't happy. I mean that's a ludicrous sort've attitude, they're a combination of different things and it's all contradictory and-

SB: But ultimately a combination, instead of that one- I mean most pop bands present this image of, I mean heavy metal bands seem to present this image of "I've been done really badly by", which obviously their audiences relate to, yet, your average pop band presents this image of "basically everything's wonderful", and you go home with this girl-

RH: Life is white.

SB: Or this boy and that's it, and you're happy ever after, and y'know that just doesn't happen.

RP: It's facile.

SB: And how can anyone relate to them, or gain any sort've experience out of that or encouragement in their life, I mean basically if you just actually believe the lyrics then you just have to feel awfully insecure.

RH: All you can do is ultimately depress people because they can't live up to the standards that they're continually being presented with.

SB: In the same way the average family cannot live up to being the Brady Bunch.

SB & RH: Believe it or not ! (laughter)

RP: If you are happy, if you're in that situation, the ideal situation, you don't really know what to do with it anyway, cos you've never been shown. It's "here it is, happiness". You have to work at it.

RH: I don't think contentment is a particularly great thing personally. I prefer to stay hungry.

RP: Well, on that note, how's the record company going? Are you pleased with it?

SB: Yeah, they're great. They've been totally supportive from the very outset. I would imagine for their respect for the BP and for Mick Harvey. They financed our rehearsal sessions, and our recordings, and have not complained about the fact that we are basically a tax loss at the moment.

RH: (chuckling) deeply in debt.

SB: Deeply in debt to them (laughter) I mean they've got Depeche Mode so they're not starving or anything.

RP: You're not worried about the debt, or are you worried but confident?

RH: Well it would be fairly pleasant to actually make some money.

SB: We're physically worried in the sense that we might have to go hungry for some considerable period of time, towards such time as that debt's paid off, but yeah, no, Daniel (Miller - head of Mute Records) he's got a pretty reasonable attitude about music, he seems to enjoy being able to sponsor bands that are really not likely to make that much money-

RH: (gleefully) In fact he really enjoys watching groups that he knows are going to sell hardly any records at all.

RP: He seems to love taking that sort of risk-

SB: It's not a risk for him, he's in a situation now where he's earning so much money through Depeche Mode and Yazoo, the Assembly, they're his, y'know- if he signs a band, that is intended to make money, like is a pop band, and it doesn't succeed, then he gets worried, but we're a band that is intended not to make a great deal of money; we're not going to be like, "here Daniel, here'2 the next gold record, and we'll sign one to your daughter" and whatever, he's got - what's that band that he's got that makes absolutely nothing?

RH: Not Non? Non sell about ten records a year in England; I mean Boyd Rice is a truly wonderful human being-

SB: A genius! (much laughter by this time)

RH: - but he doesn't sell many records, but Mute are very faithful to him.

SB: And Mute's quite willing to put out triple albums by Non-

RH: Mark Stewart's another sort've person like that, to a certain extent - more successful than Boyd-

SB: Mark Stewart - isn't he the one who went in and edited his record with a pair of scissors? (the whole room is laughing)

RH: He was told that he had to take sixty minutes out of a 140 minute record, so he said "if you give me a razor blade, I'll be back in half an hour". Daniel was- fairly worried.